Rack DZ - The TAOP and Podcasting - Talking About Organizations Podcast

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Rack DZ (TAOP and Podcasting): Using Podcasting and Other Public Scholarship | How We Have Evolved

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A Brief History of the Talking About Organizations Podcast

As you go through our program, you will likely notice some evolutionary changes that have occurred since we released our first episode. Cast members have come and gone, we have changed sponsorships more than twice, and the format of our episodes shifted. We have tried things and kept them; and tried other things and decided never to do that again. Ten years is plenty of time to learn some lessons.

Seasons 1 & 2. Season 1 was the grand experiment where the original founding quartet — Dmitrijs, Ralph, Miranda, and Pedro — put forth the first twelve episodes. Taylor, Fayol, Maslow, Follett, Weber, the first episode from the Carnegie-Mellon School, all these were released to pilot the idea of a podcast devoted to the classics of organization studies. The episodes were released both on a website and through podcast streaming services, and sponsored originally by IKON at the University of Warwick. When the first 12 proved successful, the quartet elected to keep it going and adding an additional 10 episodes (13-22), which were dubbed as “Season 2.”

A lot of the enduring designs of the episodes originated at this time. Apart from Episodes 1 & 3 which were released as a single recording, the Episodes were each presented in two parts, 40-60 minutes each, released a week apart. The target length was based on something one of the cast members described as “the length of a typical commuter ride on the Underground.” But for those with shorter commutes or otherwise less time on their hands, we included “supplements” or “summaries” for most episodes that provided an overview of the reading and our discussion in ten minutes or less. Apart from episodes from classic works, we also included a couple special episodes — Episode 10 on a famous TV play “Twelve Angry Men” and our first episode on academic conferences, Episode 12, recorded at the Organizational Learning, Knowledge, and Capabilities (OLKC) 2016 conference in Scotland. Both would become trailblazers of the different types of Episodes we would introduce over the years.

There were also extras, in the form of additional information and contributions from listeners. After the Taylor episode, Pedro introduced a short webpost about how scientific management influenced kitchen designs in the early 20th century. A listener, Albie Davis, responded to our first episode on Mary Parker Follett (Episode 5) and posted a wonderful note.

Seasons 3-6. With the initial success of the program, the original quartet began recruiting new cast members and engaging with the broader community. Season 3 (Episodes 23-32) was the “JMS Classics” season in which 8 of the seminal articles featured in the Journal of Management Studies‘ 25th anniversary year became the subject of podcast episodes. Some included the authors themselves or a guest who either knew the author or who wrote a commentary in JMS for the anniversary.

Seasons 4-6 (2017-2020, Episodes 33-61). saw the program continue to evolve. For a period of time, we elected to move from a 2-part format to 3 parts per episode, with each part lasting 25-35 minutes. We would switch back to the 2-part format within a year at it allowed for more in-depth conversations.

We also began to expand the meaning of “classic” to include both more recent publications, such as Episode 35 on Arlie Hochschild’s The managed heart on the construct of emotional labor, and antiquity, covering Xenophon’s Oeconomicus in Episode 37. We held an episode on our first-ever symposium on the gig economy (Episode 40) and then our first-ever (and so far our only) debate when four cast members split into pairs to argue for and against federalism using The Federalist Papers (Episode 43). And then came our first of several “movie” episodes, featuring Charlie Chaplin’s classic Modern times that satirized working conditions of the early 20th century (Episode 53), followed by WALL-E (Episode 62) and the documentary American factory (Episode 68). Throughout this time, the cast continued to grow (we had up to twelve cast members at one point but then some departed) as did our listenership. Finally, we began to host regular professional development workshop episodes at the Academy of Management Annual Meeting. Topics have included classic scholars (Episode 46) and contingency theories and theorists (Episode 58).

Season 7 and the COVID-19 Pandemic. This proved to be a turning point for the program. Part 1 of the first episode of Season 7 was released mere days before the COVID-19 pandemic hit. During the initial lockdowns, we recognized that this new environment was posing great challenges for the academic community, so we released several episodes devoted to contemporary concerns people were having, such as Episode 66 on workplace isolation and an extra on how to conduct classes and do research remotely.

We celebrated our fifth year celebration that October (Episode 69) with a special episode on the podcast itself. All the cast contributed, either in a conversation about how the podcast is run (sort of) or in answering some questions submitted by listeners. A third part included excerpts of interviews from past guests. The episode only marked the handover of the managing editor duties from Dmitrijs to Tom.

The Years Since. From the Year 2021 season onward, TAOP has stabilized on a monthly release plan in which each episode is two parts of 40-60 minutes apiece with a five-minute summary. The cast has remained relatively steady at 8-10 volunteers at any given time, and we continued to bring in guests.

The typical year has 12 episodes of which eight are normally devoted to classical works of organization theory or management science, 1 to either a more philosophical work of sociology or a popular book on management (an example being Episode 112 on The Peter principle), 1 “movie episode” (most recently Episode 113 on A league of their own), 1 historical case (e.g., Episode 92 on organizational secrecy using the Manhattan Project), and a conference episode from AoM or other venue (most recently Episode 118 on digital technologies and the impacts on organizational structures from the 2024 Academy of Management Annual Meeting). Of course, this is just a “plan” and what we actually wind up doing may differ.

What Does it Take to Be an Effective Cast Member?

A great question! It is likely that everyone on the current cast would give very different answers. But more to the point, the typical academic (or any human being for that matter) is more likely to think they can’t do it rather than they can. Public speaking skills are not in everyone’s DNA, and (understandably) people fear sounding ignorant or saying something “dumb,” especially online. But there is nothing to fear. Podcasting is all about the dialogue. There are just some finer points about podcasting, particularly for TAOP, to keep in mind.

None of these are hard and fast rules. We pride ourselves in allowing the dialogue to emerge. But if we were to characterize what we like about our own program, there is probably some consensus around the following:

We Converse by Serial Monologue. Like a sort of multi-party interview, we allow each cast member some time and space to deliver thoughtful and thought-provoking contributions. We avoid talking over each other if at all possible, and we simply edit out any verbal disfluencies that naturally come from this style of recording. The types of in-depth dialogue we seek demands patience, empathy, and not trying to rush the conversation.

We Critique the Readings. Just because a reading is a “classic” does not mean that we may like it or agree with it. In fact, we have occasionally raised strong questions about why a reading is so highly regarded. However, we critique without criticizing — we hold ourselves to professional standards in justifying our support or criticism of a work and we challenge each other in dialogue to present arguments supporting our views.

We Situate the Readings. It can be easy, and we consider it unhelpful, to impose contemporary perspectives on older works. The classics were products of their times and the context matters. When we explore such works, we want to know what was the original purpose for the study and what did the findings mean at that time? This is what we usually do in Part 1 of each episode. Only after establishing the context properly do we venture into the Part 2 conversations about contemporary implications or looking retrospectively at what the original author maybe should have done differently? Also, situating the reading may explain some contemporary myths or misinterpretations of the work that a direct reading would avoid.

We Step Out of Our Comfort Zones. While we do naturally gravitate to classic works that our cast members might be more familiar with, there are plenty of episodes where none of the cast had read it before or only read it once during their initial masters or doctoral courses and do not remember much about them. As with any profession or community of practice (see Rack DC), we seek to span boundaries. We have, for example, found a lot of connections among classic works among the fields of organizational behavior, contingency theory, and institution theory that scholars within those communities may not be emphasizing. Or we find that there is a subfield in organization studies that we have neither an episode on nor anyone on the cast familiar with it. We are more than willing to pursue something new and unfamiliar.

We Have Fun. We have a lot of fun doing this because we respect each other and enjoy each others’ company. We consider ourselves “family friendly” in the sense that we do not use improper or disparaging language — to the point where we almost never have to cut anything out in editing. What you hear is basically how we converse with each other ordinarily. As volunteers, we know how important it is for the cast to want to come back and do another episode.

Can I Get Involved?

The short answer is Yes! We are a community of volunteers who are doing this for our professional development and because it is fun!

Regarding being a cast member — please understand that we are selective. We do not do open casting calls. We prefer to meet prospective cast members through professional forums or contacts, and we assess which ones demonstrate the qualities of being an effective cast member described above. Most of our cast were first invited to be a guest on an episode, and then if successful we followed with invitations to join more permanently.

There are other ways to get involved, however. This new Resource Center was built to gather contributions from across the academic community. Got a theory or concept or contemporary topic that we do not have a page for? You can contribute, and you will receive proper credit if your page is accepted!

We can also use help in the technical aspects of running the site such as website maintenance and upgrades, for those with skills and experience. Please reach out if interested.

Related TAOP Episodes, Events, and Notes

122: Cultivation and Curation of Professional Knowledge

This month we discuss the importance and challenges of curating our domains of knowledge in organization studies and launch our new Resource Center! …

118: Organizational Structures & Digital Technologies – AoM 2024 Symposium

This month we present a recording of a symposium titled “Design Choices: Examining the Interplay of Organizational Structure and Digital Technologies” from the 2024 Annual Meeting of the Academy of Management. Digital technologies now underpin the very fabric of the workplace; how tasks are assigned, bundled, and monitored partially hinges on the design of such technologies. Four panelists discuss various perspectives on the matter including design thinking, disparities of structures and norms that the same technologies generate among different nations, and the need to formally differentiate design research from design practice …

93: Approaches to the Study of Work — Classics AoM PDW LIVE

This year’s professional development workshop (PDW) on Classics of Organization and Management Theory explored key approaches to the study of work and was held at the 2022 Annual Meeting of the Academy of Management in Seattle, Washington in the U.S. It represents the fourth edition of a standing series showcasing the enduring relevance of early organizational research. Steve Barley, Gina Dokko, Ingrid Erickson, and Davide Nicolini presented central insights on research traditions related to the study of work and related topics such as careers and technological change. They also addressed various ways that these insights can shed light on the …

82: Women of Organizational Scholarship — Classics AoM PDW LIVE

Presents a professional development workshop we hosted at the 2021 Annual Meeting of the Academy of Management. It sheds light on the foundational texts of female scholars for the field of organization and management theory but whose work is often overlooked. Includes presentations by Emmanuelle Vaast on Jean Lave, Marta Calás on Edith Penrose, Martha Feldman on Susan Leigh Star, Maja Korica on Rosemary Stewart, Maria José Tonelli on Isabel Menzies Lyth, and Lisa Cohen on Rosabeth Moss Kanter …

81: Diversity and Inclusion — EGOS 2021 Special LIVE

The COVID-19 pandemic and its effects on societies and the workspace have demonstrated the importance of open conversations on matters of diversity and inclusion. The theme for the 37th Colloquium of the European Group for Organizational Studies (EGOS), hosted virtually in July 2021 by the Vrije Universiteit (VU) in Amsterdam, was “Organizing for an inclusive society: Meanings, motivations, and mechanisms.” In this special episode, we offer the keynote address of that colloquium by Mirjam van Praag, “The Value (Drivers) of Diversity: A Perspective from Research and Management Practice.” She provides insights from her research on the added value and imperative …

69: Our 5th Anniversary Special!

On October 13, 2015 — The Talking About Organizations Podcast descended upon the unsuspecting world of academia with the release of Episode 1: Scientific Management – F.W. Taylor’s One Best Way, covering the much misunderstood and severely misrepresented work of Frederick Winslow Taylor. Five years later and we are still here! Come celebrate our first five years with retrospective looks at how we plan and put on the show, talks with some of our past guests, and responses to questions sent in by our listeners! …

58: Contingency Approach – AOM 2019 Workshop LIVE

This professional development workshop focuses on the contingency approach as exemplary of classic scholarship in organization and management theory. We focus on the historical context of the contingency approach, the main ideas of authors and traditions associated with it, and their connections with contemporary research …

53: Taylorism in Motion — Charlie Chaplin’s Modern Times

We discuss Charlie Chaplin’s 1936 film “Modern Times” balances great physical comedy with powerful social commentary. Chaplin portrayed a hapless Worker on an assembly line who is tormented both by supervisors and the work itself. After being subjected to a humiliating experiment intended to improve the line’s efficiency, the Worker runs through a series of rotating jobs, stints in jail, and other misadventures as he tries to find his purpose in life …

50: Celebrating 50 Episodes! What Have We Learned?

This is our first “milestone” release, celebrating our 50th episode and providing an opportunity for us to gather all the cast members to reflect on what the podcast has meant to us and how much we have accomplished …

46: Classics of Management and Organization Theory – AoM 2018 Workshop LIVE

A special recording from a workshop on management classics held at the 2018 Academy of Management Conference in Chicago. Hosted by Pedro, this PDW intended to raise interest towards classic authors/ideas in the field of organization and management theory. It offered scholars from all levels the opportunity to reflect on insights of earlier scholarship and their relevance for current research, complementing the strong emphasis (on new ideas and approaches. This is of great importance as the field has thus far been more attentive to disruptions than continuities; pursuing novelty over tradition …

40: Symposium on the Gig Economy LIVE

The TAOP Symposium on the Gig Economy was a unique, one-day interdisciplinary symposium on the forms and effects of management in the contemporary sharing (a.k.a. gig) economy that took place on 15 December 2017 at the University of Sussex. Blending individual and panel presentations from leading scholars and commentators with group conversations, we wanted to examine the continuities – as well as disruptions – in the ways that work is organised through, and in light of, online platforms …

37: Socrates on Management – Oeconomicus by Xenophon

This episode takes us to ancient Greece and one of the great practical philosophers, Xenophon (pronounced ZEN-uh-phun), whose Oeconomicus may have been one of his “minor” works in the world of philosophy, but it is a fascinating work for those interested in management and organizational studies. The book is written as a dialogue, with Socrates playing a sort of narrator who engages with men and encourages them to become more virtuous, with varying success …

12: On the Value of Conferences — Emma Bell and Paul Duguid LIVE

Dmitrijs and Ralph are joined by Professors Paul Duguid and Emma Bell to talk about the value and form of conferences in promoting, disseminating and facilitating knowledge. The four of us shared some personal conference-attending experiences, considered the current format and emergent alternatives, and pondered on the nature of knowledge as such …